- Spying is not part of the EUFOR’s mandate – that is the straight answer of commander of EUFOR in Bosnia and Herzegovina, brigadier general from Austria, Martin Dorfer.  

Under the spotlight of a heated debate amongst the Bosnian Serb politicians on what 40 soldiers from the United Kingdom are doing here, Dorfer has only one solution – to go right to the point.

Are the speculations on „spying“ over? No! 

Is the intervention of „40 James Bonds“ from the UK going to continue and be speeded up? Most probably. In absence of results and solutions for real problems that people from all over Bosnia are facing, politicans are inventing stories and conspiricy theories. By spooking voters, they are hopping to get their support. Sounds odd, but works!  

Have you expected so many reactions after it was announced that 40 British soldiers are coming to Bosnia as reinforcement?

Well, of course. Due to the fact that this is a high political topic, so to say, I for sure expected some reactions. And as we could see, I was proven right.

Are you surprised by so many reactions?

To be honest, not at all.Given the fact that we are already in the pre-election period, this is actually a good topic to jump on that and also kind of using it now and then for the whole election time, as well.

The British are coming at your request. Are there other countries for which you requested assistance? How many soldiers have you asked for in total?

Well, let’s go a little bit back to what happened in the fourth quarter in 2017, because this was actually not a request by EUFOR itself. Last year, EUFOR was asked by Brussels, to be presice by the Political Security Committee, which is the political lead, so to say, of Operation EUFOR Althea to conduct a strategic review. Which means, we were asked to evaluate the whole mission, the tasks, the personnel, and so on and so forth, as well as the overall objectives, and the outcome then was that Operation EUFOR Althea is again refocusing on the core task, supporting the local authorities in safe and secure environment, as well as with the, as I call them, embedded tasks, disposal of ammunition, weapons and explosives and the demining, which in the end again supports safe and secure environment for the peoples in Bosnia and Herzegovina. And then the decision was made, ok, approved, and the next step, actually this was in March this year, and then between March and June, this then actually ended then in so-called force generation process, so to implement the political decision and one of those was exactly what you said, meaning shifting capacity building away from EUFOR to our NATO partners because NATO is responsible for the defence reform anyway and EUFOR again focusing on supporting a safe and secure environment, meaning having more soldiers within EUFOR in order to be better in situational awareness. In the end there is no reinforcement, because we still stick to our head display of the six hundred. So we are not beyond the six hundred. It’s still the same, because this was a political decision, as well. But, you are right; we do shift within our assets and within our capabilities. So, with this then all the EU member states have been asked to contribute and also the five non-EU member states, as I always call them, from Chile to Turkey. They have been asked as well. And in the end, then obviously, none of the nations replied immediately to take over this reconnaissance assets and then actually London jumped in and the British Ministry of Defence then approved that they will support EUFOR again for the next six months, so to say, to fill this gap exactly and then with the ongoing discussions after the six months another EU nation should step in and take over.

So, for these six months the 40 British soldiers will be here and then the Austrians might come because, you see, I’ve talked to the Austrian Ambassador who said that Austria is willing to send their soldiers as well.

I read the statement of the Austrian Ambassador, Pammer. In a certain way he is right. But, he again, and that’s actually also a normal procedure. So, the Austrians coming with Infantry Company in August and they take over from the Hungarian company.

How many soldiers?

It’s roughly one Infantry Company. So, it’s roughly one hundred and, maybe, ten, twenty. So, meaning, that in the end Austria is again the strongest contingent within EUFOR.

And Hungarians… Why are Hungarians leaving?

They go back home and therefore still again we are within six hundred.

I see!

But, Austria might also… because Austria is supporting me with the Aviation Detachment, and also in operations and training. So, I am hopeful that I might get, maybe, a handful more of the Austrians, as well.

Let me go straight to the point. How many politicians in region EUFOR is spying on? I mean you saw the statement of Mr. Dodik. Mr. Dodik is a president. I assume as well as you he is a serious man and he knows what he’s talking about.

That’s a straightforward question with very easy answer: None.

Why?

Because, spying is not part of the EUFOR’s mandate. My mandate and my mission is clear. My mandate is written down in the UN Security Council Resolution, meaning Chapter 7 mandate supporting the local authorities with a safe and secure environment by all my means, and capacity building and training. This mandate will be renewed in November this year in New York again. So, and within that mandate, there is no room for spying on anybody and I can assure you as COM EUFOR and as an Austrian general that my soldiers or my contingents, they do not have any hidden agenda within EUFOR because there is no room for that. We do support and we do cooperate and coordinate with the local authorities in order that the peoples can focus on their lives and all the others from the politicians downwards can focus on the politics in order to make the way for Bosnia and Herzegovina into the European Union, because this is actually what the future is. So, I as the Commander of EUFOR, I work closely with Ambassador Wigemark, the Head of the EU Delegation, in ensuring a comprehensive approach, so to say. And my part within that is a safe and secure environment, and all the politics, actually many players are in country, so the head of EU Delegation, the ambassadors, and so on and so forth. So, no spying on anybody.

So, Mr. Dodik is inventing the story.

I don’t know. You should have to ask him, because this is absolutely none of my business. My business is supporting the local authorities and the peoples in Bosnia and Herzegovina with safe and secure environment. This is actually what EUFOR stands for, with an open, transparent and unbiased approach.

One technical question. EUFOR is the only military operation of the EU.

Not really.

In Europe?

Not even in Europe.

In Macedonia, as well.

In terms of military mission, the EU is operating missions in the Western Balkans, which is EUFOR, then in the Mediterranean Sea with NAVFOR SOPHIA and in Africa. So, actually, if we take into account that the Mediterranean Sea belongs to Europe, we have to, so there are two military missions. But on land EUFOR is the only one.

How media and the statement of the UK Defence Minister complicated your life since he mentioned that the task of the unit will be as well also the combat malign Russian influence. So, you are combating.  

No, I don’t, because…

What do you do?

Those units I received from London, they are fully working under my operational control. So, meaning, they are directly under my command. And having said this…

It is not exception, excuse me for interruption. Everybody are directly under your command, right.

Now, we are talking military techniques. Generally, yes. But, some assets, because normally the Chief of Staff is coordinating all the elements the military branches and the assets. But there are some units which are directly under my command, so to say. And, those for example, they are directly under my command.

The British?

For example.

Why?

Because, first of all, it is an important asset, and, as well, to make sure that I know exactly what they are doing and they know exactly what they have to do in accordance to my orders.

So, what they are doing? This is a reconnaissance unit, and they are not spying.

They are not spying, no, for sure not. What they really do in order to be better in situational awareness, they will be deployed all over the country, so, meaning, not only Republika Srpska, all over Bosnia and Hercegovina, in both entities, in municipalities, within the cantons, and they will operate there in an open and transparent way in order to get in touch with the local authorities, with the mayors, and especially with the law enforcement agencies to offer, in the end, my good offices and my good services in order to have a clear picture, situational awareness, what is going on, also to know are there certain needs and requirements by the local authorities, by the law enforcement agencies where EUFOR can either help or coordinate with others in order in the end to help. And, of course, in the end, it’s also a certain meaning of force protection because I have to take care of my units and my soldiers as well in order to establish a safe and secure environment for both the local communities, the law enforcement agencies but for my troops as well…so just establishing… What actually EUFOR is doing since 2004, there is no big change in that.

But after the announcements from London the whole story started.  

Right.

And there is no way to kind of shut it down. Actually, EUFOR is a part of the election campaign in Bosnia, dragged in.

Yes, unfortunately.

And there is nothing you can do.

Well…

Have you met with Dodik and explained him why the UK soldiers are here, what they are doing, etc?

Not yet.  

Did he ask for a meeting?

No, not yet.

And he talks of the activities of EUFOR without talking to you.

Right.

Nevertheless, this is part of my key leader engagement, so to say.

Of what?

My key leader engagement, meaning, meeting all from the Presidency downwards, so to say. So, on the state levels, but in regard of safety and security I am also meeting the responsible authorities and ministers on the entity level, so, meaning, I do have my meetings in the Republika Srpska, and I will continue with them for sure further on.

When was the last meeting and with whom? With Lukač, minister of interior od Bosnia's Serbs entity?

The last meeting was with the Prime Minister and with Lukač.

When?

This was some weeks ago. It must have been in May. So, the next one will be actually in July.

Are there talks in the EU and within the bodies that observe EUFOR of a further reduction of the troops, further reduction of your mandate, termination of your mandate. I was told, excuse me for interruption, that Germany is interested in kind of serious changes within EUFOR, maybe even to cancel it.

Well, to be honest, I don’t see that. There are always talks within the European Union and, of course, there are talks regarding EUFOR and EUFOR’s mandate as well. Also in connection to the EU accession path of Bosnia and Herzegovina where some nations and also Brussels state that it kind of doesn’t fit together. On the one way, Bosnia and Herzegovina on the path to the EU with the EU accession but still having a military force here in country. There have been strong discussions last year which then, as I already mentioned, ended up in the force generation process. My impressions from the meeting in Brussels of the Political and Security Committee in March was that there are still discussions but not as strong as they were last year.

In the sense of changing or termination of the mandate of EUFOR.

Right! There are many so-called like-minded states, like my country is in order to support the mission because they still do see a need for the mission being here in country. I also always link it to certain conditions, which we should meet and if EUFOR has met them then it’s time to discuss the mandate or even to terminate the mandate.

But we are not there yet.

Not there yet.

Are we far from there?

Well, in regards to…we will see…I don’t know, because this heavily depends on the political progress, so to say.

Of Bosnia?  

Of Bosnia and Herzegovina in meeting the EU requirements. So, as you know there have been 656 questions to be answered again. So, therefore, this will take some time, and EUFOR with safe and secure environment and then again with, which is sometimes difficult to take or to get the grip on what is it. But I see EUFOR and myself as a kind of reassurance force. So, we are not implementing peace, we are not stabilizing peace, we are kind of reassurance for the people in Bosnia and Herzegovina, so that everybody can more or less can focus on his job, for the politicians on their job down to the people to live their life, and, actually, to have a future for the young generation here in country. And in terms of a certain timeline, I then always say ok, disposal of ammunition, weapons and explosives with the Armed Forces. So, with the ammunition, our objective is the end of 2019, and we have the weapons disposal, where we have to register them, mark them, or either to destroy them or sell them. So, if they are in good shape they can be sold as well. This is part of the disposal so to say 2020. In terms of demining, you might be aware of this new EU demining project with land release. So, we survey and then land release. EUFOR is supporting as well. The goal would be 2025. Also, in accordance to the Ottawa Convention. And, there I think that’s at least the timeframe where the executive mandate is still of need.

Yeah, we have to wrap up. There are couple of points. Are you planning exercises of EUFOR by the mid of October, for example? How many exercises? And in that regard, is there any additional force that will come only for that purpose.

We do have our annual exercise Quick Response.

It is in October, right?

No. The exercise is at the end of August and the first week in September.

Right on time. For another election story.

I do not hope so. But it could be. Nevertheless, it has been planned early last year.

Ages ago.  

Yeah. It is taking place every year. So, we do this this year again together with the law enforcement agencies, with the Airport Sarajevo and with the Armed Forces of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

And no outside forces, as a reinforcement.

There will be outside forces, but not as a reinforcement because they come for the exercise and for the rehearsal, which EUFOR has done also in the last years in order to exercise and to evaluate our reserve forces concept, because as you know EUFOR with 600, that’s the footprint here in country, but we, our back up are the reserve forces within this Berlin Plus framework…

British again?

…provided by NATO and the European Union, and with the British company will come in again, as in the last years. But, not only them. It’s also KFOR, because we have a close cooperation on the Western Balkans. It is Austrians and it might be others as well. So this is still an ongoing process.

You don’t know the figures. How many additional soldiers will come? And for how long they will stay?

Not exactly. So, I do not know the figures exactly. But it might be roughly... it is one company for sure. Then, of course, we have the Austrian company here because they are doing the handover–takeover. So, its’ actually two companies, then we have the unit from KFOR, and then we have…they are here anyway, so my battalion is here anyway, and then we have some other not units but parts of units of the reserve forces. They will come in again, as well. But, it’s not a full unit; it’s an advance party with the officers and the commanders, so to say the commanding officers.

So, where the exercise is going to take place? Here, in Butmir or all over?

The exercise will take place in Butmir, at Airport Sarajevo but also all over the Bosnia and Herzegovina. So we will go up to some of our forward operating bases as well.

So, let’s say it for example, on August 20th, apart from 600 EUFOR soldiers, you will have, let’s say, 150 soldiers from abroad participating in the exercise.

At least.

And they will move, leave on September 15th, let’s say by the mid of September?

The majority should leave after the exercise, right, mid-September.

And no one will stay?

Not for sure yet.

You have nothing to do with the migrants, right? It is not your mandate?

The migrants are not my mandate. Nevertheless, due to the fact that I am responsible for a safe and secure environment, of course, we do observe what is going on, we are in close cooperation with the law enforcement agencies regarding that and it is not a concern yet, but we observe and monitor closely what is going on with the migrants’ issue.

It means that you might interfere.

No, I will not interfere. But, in case there is a need, and I do have assets available and if there is a request, we will assess to support.

By Bosnian authorities or by EU, Commission?

No, by Bosnian authorities, not by Commission, not at all. So, this request can only come from the Bosnian authorities.

What can you offer then since you’ve mentioned that you have assets?

That depends on the situation and what the request is, because, as you know, I have one Multinational Battalion. We do have our Liaison and Observation Teams throughout country, who are more or less my face and the eye and the ears of EUFOR. So, with that, as I already mentioned, we are in close cooperation and coordination regarding, the situation, the information and so on and so forth. I do have an Aviation Detachment. So, it really depends on…

Aviation?  

Yeah.

Aha. Talking about security as the last point. How is the security situation in this country?

In general terms, the security is good, the situation is calm and stable as we in military language say.

But?  

So, that’s the good thing. Nevertheless, of course, due to the upcoming elections, we do see aggressive rhetoric, nationalistic rhetoric, which in the end…

Pisses you off?

It’s not helpful. But, that’s not only in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It’s in all the elections.  

Including your country?

In every country, also in my country, because parties are running for the votes, politicians are running for their seats, so this is all over, but what we have to say because of, in recent surveys we learned that more than 80 per cent, 88 per cent, of the population in Bosnia and Herzegovina see the political situation as critical and deteriorating. So, with this, then, actually, the majority of the people in Bosnia and Herzegovina also perceive the presence of EUFOR as a reassuring element contributing to a safe and secure environment, important. So, this is more or less it.

So, the people of Bosnia are exaggerating in their assessment of the deteriorating security situation?

It is obviously a concern for them.

But not for you?

Of course, because I am responsible for safe and secure environment. And, if the people in Bosnia and Herzegovina see this as a concern for them, of what might future bring.

You share that concern…

And, we all know that many young people just leave country, which is not a good sign for the country itself. So, the first time I was in country was 21 years ago,

SFOR?  

In Visoko, SFOR, yes. So, it was the period of handover from IFOR to SFOR. I was surprised to learn that in regard of that, because, many things have developed good and for good. Some things I did not expect that there was not so much progress going on. Also, in all those issues… also in accordance to coming closer or into the European Union and all those reforms and so on and so forth and, as I said, if young people just leave country then it is not a good sign for the people in the country. Then something has to be done, so that they have the future here in the country, and EUFOR’s part still is to contribute to safe and secure environment.

Last point. Terrorism. Is this threat declining? There are tendencies that there are no so many returnees. It was one attempt this year or last year and it has been prevented. You are observing that issue, right?

We do, yes. Terrorism remains a serious threat to all nations throughout Europe, including Bosnia and Herzegovina. So, it is still a topic. EUFOR has to take precautions and the other international organisations in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well. And, in the end my requirement is force protection. So, the topic of terrorism itself is a question for the authorities in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the law enforcement agencies to whom I maintain close links. My impression is that they are handling the situation very good in country and there was no incident within the last years. Also, if you compare to some European countries where there have been many incidents, but not in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I think the law enforcement agencies are well aware and they are coping with the situation very good.